There are two sides to this situation
Side 1
People with a Finance Agreement / Loan with a bank or other financial institution.
These people are being offered alternative training and may be able to get a refund due to the financial institution also being liable for the breach of contract (breach of contract may have to be argued in court)
Side 2
People with an agreement directly with Advent (aka Anglo Capital) or who paid Advent directly in cash.
Side 2's money was pumped directly into Advent; was not "ring-fenced", trickled or anything else which may or may not have happened to Side 1's money.
Side 2 people are in a much worse position regarding any type of resolution or possible refund. If Advent is insolvent then what little money they have will be even further reduced as they are low on the list of priority.
Also, the equipment that the Directors stripped out of the Mews building could have gone towards increasing the insolvency "pot". Isn't that illegal or at least amoral for them to do that?
Monday 1 February 2010
Saturday 30 January 2010
Relevant Terms & Conditions
Taken from the Enrolement Form and paraphrased / translated to plain English.
Term:
Defined as whichever is sooner out of:
The completion of your FINAL exam (eg MCSE)
Two years after enrolement
The two years can be extended to four (and the four to six, etc) by contacting Advent.
13.1.1-13.1.2 Extent of Liability
Liability includes Any act, failure to act or NEGLIGENCE on the part of Advent
13.4 Liability:
13.4.5 In the case of [failure to provide your course] Advent owe you (the student) the Fee (total cost of the course - NOT just payments made to date)
There is another clause which mentions events out of Advent's "reasonable control" and goes on to mention Administration and liquidation of the company.
So we may have to argue that it was reasonable for Advent to protect against liquidation and to have a reserve of funds (like most other training providers do). Or prove that Advent has been negligent.
If the management told the staff in December that they had £35M turnover then they reasonably should have lasted til the end of January.
The Student Finance Plan also states the following (paraphrased):
'(2) If you have received unsatisfactory goods or services you may have the right to sue us.'
So it looks like we have two options:
1. Take Advent / the Director(s) to court either individually or as a collective and argue that they are in breach of contract.
2. Apply media pressure and publicity and force / 'persuade' Advent / its representatives to refund the students it has either conned (at worst) or neglected (at best).
I like 2 better.
I hope this of use to some of you.
If anyone has more info or suggestions email adventscam@googlemail.com
Term:
Defined as whichever is sooner out of:
The completion of your FINAL exam (eg MCSE)
Two years after enrolement
The two years can be extended to four (and the four to six, etc) by contacting Advent.
13.1.1-13.1.2 Extent of Liability
Liability includes Any act, failure to act or NEGLIGENCE on the part of Advent
13.4 Liability:
13.4.5 In the case of [failure to provide your course] Advent owe you (the student) the Fee (total cost of the course - NOT just payments made to date)
There is another clause which mentions events out of Advent's "reasonable control" and goes on to mention Administration and liquidation of the company.
So we may have to argue that it was reasonable for Advent to protect against liquidation and to have a reserve of funds (like most other training providers do). Or prove that Advent has been negligent.
If the management told the staff in December that they had £35M turnover then they reasonably should have lasted til the end of January.
The Student Finance Plan also states the following (paraphrased):
'(2) If you have received unsatisfactory goods or services you may have the right to sue us.'
So it looks like we have two options:
1. Take Advent / the Director(s) to court either individually or as a collective and argue that they are in breach of contract.
2. Apply media pressure and publicity and force / 'persuade' Advent / its representatives to refund the students it has either conned (at worst) or neglected (at best).
I like 2 better.
I hope this of use to some of you.
If anyone has more info or suggestions email adventscam@googlemail.com
Terms of Contract
Taken from the Enrolement Form (paraphrased):
Interpretation:
Term:
Either Completion of the FINAL exam (eg MCSE) OR two years after your enrolement (whichever is soonest).
However, the Term can be extended past two years and in that case the next two years will be the End of Term. They say you have to contact Advent for an extension but I never had to do this (in third year studying and took exams last year)
10 TERMINATION
10.1 The Contract will terminate immediately on notice from us to you:
In the event that we...become subject to an Administration Order or go into liquidation (except for the purposes of amalgamation or reconstruction (eg create another company).
Interpretation:
Term:
Either Completion of the FINAL exam (eg MCSE) OR two years after your enrolement (whichever is soonest).
However, the Term can be extended past two years and in that case the next two years will be the End of Term. They say you have to contact Advent for an extension but I never had to do this (in third year studying and took exams last year)
10 TERMINATION
10.1 The Contract will terminate immediately on notice from us to you:
In the event that we...become subject to an Administration Order or go into liquidation (except for the purposes of amalgamation or reconstruction (eg create another company).
Friday 29 January 2010
Publicity
This scam (or "insolvency" as Advent calls it) has received lots of media attention quite quickly. Articles have appeared in The Sun, on the BBC News website and at least two stories have been shown on TV via the BBC News channel. Radio interviews have also taken place.
But if you are affected by this (as either a member of Advent staff or an Advent Student) or just want to stop unfair, unscrupulous and amoral business practices then you need to give this issue more publicity.
There are several ways to that:
Join The Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=275300983566&ref=search&sid=1263191882.2995169622..1
Contact Watchdog
http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/
Join the Consumer Action Group Forum & Share Information
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/students/244467-advent-computer-training-barclays-18.html
Seek Legal Advice
Taking joint legal action together (assuming we're 6,000 strong) seems like a good plan
Contact Your Local MP
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4018047
If you have any suggestions or advice then please email adventscam@googlemail.com
But if you are affected by this (as either a member of Advent staff or an Advent Student) or just want to stop unfair, unscrupulous and amoral business practices then you need to give this issue more publicity.
There are several ways to that:
Join The Facebook Group
Contact Watchdog
Join the Consumer Action Group Forum & Share Information
Seek Legal Advice
Taking joint legal action together (assuming we're 6,000 strong) seems like a good plan
Contact Your Local MP
If you have any suggestions or advice then please email adventscam@googlemail.com
Help
The BBC states that up to 6,000 people are left paying loans or having paid off loans for a service (IT Training) which will not be provided.
But what are your rights and what actions can you take? Below is some advice which is taken (or not) at your own risk. This is for guidance purposes only and I am not an expert in either Corporate Law, Finance or any other field which may seem relevant or applicable to the advice below.
1. If you paid on a credit card> then you are protected by law (assuming you paid over £100 for the service which you should have).
2. Technically by law anyone paying on a finance plan with Barclays Partner Finance, Hitachi, Cyldesdale or Anglo Capital does not have that protection.
The apparent course of action is to write a letter to Anglo Capital (or Access 2 Trade as they are now called) informing them that Advent have defaulted on their contractual obligation to provide the service (IT Training).
Inform AC that they are now liable to provide a replacement training provider of the same or better standard or quality as Advent.
Inform them that they have 14 days in which to respond. Also add that any payments taken by Anglo Capital from the date of the letter onwards are made in protest. Which means you are able to claim them back. Which brings me on to my next point:
3. AT LEAST ONE bank (according to an internet forum user) is aware that Advent and Anglo Capital are the same company.
Legally, this means that since Advent (who is also Anglo Capital) is claiming insolvency it is unlawful and constitutes fraud for Anglo Capital to take payment when the company is no longer solvent / able to trade.
So if Anglo Capital takes money out of your bank on 1st February 2010 then they have commited fraud.
This person was advised by their bank to cancel the direct debit. Which I would advise everyone else to do after checking with their bank.
4. Section 75 — (1) of the Consumer Credit Act states:
If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling
within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the
supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.
This means that anyone with a Claim can pursue the debt (course Fee) from both Anglo Capital and Advent.
Or in the case of people with Barclays Partner Finance they can pursue both Advent and Barclays for the debt. Of course it may have to be a legal pursuit as I doubt either Advent or Barclays will pay up, assuming they (Advent) are able to.
5. Advent's terms and conditions state that in the "Event of Default" you are entitled to the Fee (total amount of the course). Event of Default is open to legal interpretation but coupled with Anglo Capital's addendum to their agreement which states, 'if you feel that you have received unsatisfactory goods or services then you may have a right to sue us' it seems that Advent have a debt of £4,750 or similar to all the students who have paid for courses they have not received.
6. Having spoken to my bank today (local branch was closed) when/if the payment goes out to Anglo Capital on Monday then I will be able to reclaim it via the Direct Debit Indemnity Act.
So for those of us who haven't yet cancelled the Direct Debit to Anglo Capital we should do it on Monday either in a branch or over the phone.
Note: Consumer Direct did inform me that since I have started the course I have technically received the service.
However, I have not received the service outlined in the Agreement which is 'MCSE Course' as I am not yet MCSE Certified. I would like to know if this has a legal standing as to me it seems a fair point.
If you have anymore information or suggestions please email adventscam@googlemail.com
But what are your rights and what actions can you take? Below is some advice which is taken (or not) at your own risk. This is for guidance purposes only and I am not an expert in either Corporate Law, Finance or any other field which may seem relevant or applicable to the advice below.
1. If you paid on a credit card> then you are protected by law (assuming you paid over £100 for the service which you should have).
2. Technically by law anyone paying on a finance plan with Barclays Partner Finance, Hitachi, Cyldesdale or Anglo Capital does not have that protection.
The apparent course of action is to write a letter to Anglo Capital (or Access 2 Trade as they are now called) informing them that Advent have defaulted on their contractual obligation to provide the service (IT Training).
Inform AC that they are now liable to provide a replacement training provider of the same or better standard or quality as Advent.
Inform them that they have 14 days in which to respond. Also add that any payments taken by Anglo Capital from the date of the letter onwards are made in protest. Which means you are able to claim them back. Which brings me on to my next point:
3. AT LEAST ONE bank (according to an internet forum user) is aware that Advent and Anglo Capital are the same company.
Legally, this means that since Advent (who is also Anglo Capital) is claiming insolvency it is unlawful and constitutes fraud for Anglo Capital to take payment when the company is no longer solvent / able to trade.
So if Anglo Capital takes money out of your bank on 1st February 2010 then they have commited fraud.
This person was advised by their bank to cancel the direct debit. Which I would advise everyone else to do after checking with their bank.
4. Section 75 — (1) of the Consumer Credit Act states:
If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling
within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the
supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.
This means that anyone with a Claim can pursue the debt (course Fee) from both Anglo Capital and Advent.
Or in the case of people with Barclays Partner Finance they can pursue both Advent and Barclays for the debt. Of course it may have to be a legal pursuit as I doubt either Advent or Barclays will pay up, assuming they (Advent) are able to.
5. Advent's terms and conditions state that in the "Event of Default" you are entitled to the Fee (total amount of the course). Event of Default is open to legal interpretation but coupled with Anglo Capital's addendum to their agreement which states, 'if you feel that you have received unsatisfactory goods or services then you may have a right to sue us' it seems that Advent have a debt of £4,750 or similar to all the students who have paid for courses they have not received.
6. Having spoken to my bank today (local branch was closed) when/if the payment goes out to Anglo Capital on Monday then I will be able to reclaim it via the Direct Debit Indemnity Act.
So for those of us who haven't yet cancelled the Direct Debit to Anglo Capital we should do it on Monday either in a branch or over the phone.
Note: Consumer Direct did inform me that since I have started the course I have technically received the service.
However, I have not received the service outlined in the Agreement which is 'MCSE Course' as I am not yet MCSE Certified. I would like to know if this has a legal standing as to me it seems a fair point.
If you have anymore information or suggestions please email adventscam@googlemail.com
The Facts
Here are all the facts currently available:
Advent (2) Ltd was incorporated as a new business in September 2007 and is still Active.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company Details: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Advent Computer Training was incorporated in 2002 and changed its name to Advent Consulting in 2009.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company Details: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Notice the name of Ashley Jones listed in both companies' information.
Anglo Capital (who most people had their 'Finance Agreement' or 'Student Finance Plan' with) changed its name in December 2009 to Access 2 Careers Limited.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company information: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Ashley Jones seems to be a very common name.
Allchurch & Associates (I wonder if Ashley Jones is an associate...) is ran from the same Hagley (The Mews) address.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company information: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Ideas For Careers is also owned / 'directed' by Ashley Jones (he has so many ideas!)
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
But maybe he ran out of ideas because the company name was changed to WDNTC TEN UK LIMITED in December 2009 - the EXACT SAME TIME that Advent and Anglo Capital also changed their names. I wish Ashley would pick a name and stick with it.
Company info: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
So from Companies House we can see that there are several companies all run from the same address as Advent with the same Director(s).
Here are some Whois lookups for the various companies. A Whois lookup gathers all of the information registered by a person or business who purchases a website domain.
http://whois.domaintools.com/access2careers.co.uk
Access2Careers was registered by Anglo Capital.
http://whois.domaintools.com/adventtraining.co.uk
Advent Training is registered to a Mr Ashley Jones
13 other domains are registered to the same IP or hosting company.
Source: http://www.domaintools.com/reverse-ip/?hostname=adventtraining.co.uk
Ideas For Careers.com is registered to Mr Ivor Allchurch (the name Andrew Allchurch appears multiple times in the above companies' details)
Source: http://whois.domaintools.com/ideasforcareers.com
According to a BBC Midlands Today Report, staff informed reporters that they were told by Advent management in December that the company had made £35M (that's million) turnover and to look forward to 2010.
"Insiders claimed Advent and Access2Trade, both part of Anglo Capital Limited, were accepting cash for courses just TEN days ago."
Source: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2830317/Access2Trade-and-Advent-training-schemes-fall-into-administration.html#mySunComments
Anecdotal evidence on various internet forums (such as Money Saving Expert and Consumer Action Group) state that Advent was taking money and had people attending workshops as recently as 27th January 2010.
The "insolvency email" was sent at 5:01pm on 27th January.
Anecdotal evidence also states that at least one bank is aware that Anglo Capital and Advent Computer Training / Consulting are the same company.
One more fact is that from August to September 2009 "Andrea from Advent" (Student Accounts Manager) was ringing constantly to ask me to pay the lump sum of the loan (with Anglo Capital) by taking out a credit card.
I think that can be viewed in one of two ways:
1. She was genuinely trying to "help" me pay off the lump sum because a credit card at 16.8% APR is somewho better than a Student Finance Plan at 16.8% APR. Or...
2. Advent knew they were in financial trouble as far back as 2009 and were trying to get as much cash / liquidity as possible.
For advice / information on what to do about your student loan or course related to Advent please see the 'Help' section.
If you have anymore information or suggestions please email adventscam@googlemail.com
Advent (2) Ltd was incorporated as a new business in September 2007 and is still Active.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company Details: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Advent Computer Training was incorporated in 2002 and changed its name to Advent Consulting in 2009.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company Details: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Notice the name of Ashley Jones listed in both companies' information.
Anglo Capital (who most people had their 'Finance Agreement' or 'Student Finance Plan' with) changed its name in December 2009 to Access 2 Careers Limited.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company information: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Ashley Jones seems to be a very common name.
Allchurch & Associates (I wonder if Ashley Jones is an associate...) is ran from the same Hagley (The Mews) address.
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
Company information: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
Ideas For Careers is also owned / 'directed' by Ashley Jones (he has so many ideas!)
Source: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/compdetails
But maybe he ran out of ideas because the company name was changed to WDNTC TEN UK LIMITED in December 2009 - the EXACT SAME TIME that Advent and Anglo Capital also changed their names. I wish Ashley would pick a name and stick with it.
Company info: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/5d463244595ed35ea14eeff7257a0584/wcprodorder?ft=1
So from Companies House we can see that there are several companies all run from the same address as Advent with the same Director(s).
Here are some Whois lookups for the various companies. A Whois lookup gathers all of the information registered by a person or business who purchases a website domain.
http://whois.domaintools.com/access2careers.co.uk
Access2Careers was registered by Anglo Capital.
http://whois.domaintools.com/adventtraining.co.uk
Advent Training is registered to a Mr Ashley Jones
13 other domains are registered to the same IP or hosting company.
Source: http://www.domaintools.com/reverse-ip/?hostname=adventtraining.co.uk
Ideas For Careers.com is registered to Mr Ivor Allchurch (the name Andrew Allchurch appears multiple times in the above companies' details)
Source: http://whois.domaintools.com/ideasforcareers.com
According to a BBC Midlands Today Report, staff informed reporters that they were told by Advent management in December that the company had made £35M (that's million) turnover and to look forward to 2010.
"Insiders claimed Advent and Access2Trade, both part of Anglo Capital Limited, were accepting cash for courses just TEN days ago."
Source: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2830317/Access2Trade-and-Advent-training-schemes-fall-into-administration.html#mySunComments
Anecdotal evidence on various internet forums (such as Money Saving Expert and Consumer Action Group) state that Advent was taking money and had people attending workshops as recently as 27th January 2010.
The "insolvency email" was sent at 5:01pm on 27th January.
Anecdotal evidence also states that at least one bank is aware that Anglo Capital and Advent Computer Training / Consulting are the same company.
One more fact is that from August to September 2009 "Andrea from Advent" (Student Accounts Manager) was ringing constantly to ask me to pay the lump sum of the loan (with Anglo Capital) by taking out a credit card.
I think that can be viewed in one of two ways:
1. She was genuinely trying to "help" me pay off the lump sum because a credit card at 16.8% APR is somewho better than a Student Finance Plan at 16.8% APR. Or...
2. Advent knew they were in financial trouble as far back as 2009 and were trying to get as much cash / liquidity as possible.
For advice / information on what to do about your student loan or course related to Advent please see the 'Help' section.
If you have anymore information or suggestions please email adventscam@googlemail.com
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